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 Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger

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Nimue

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PostSubject: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   2nd October 2013, 5:39 pm

posted by The Fairy October 7th 2011

TRIAL:

Witness statements

-Joanne Bednarzprahsad

(Internal medical Physician Memorial H Hospital, Houston Texas)



Dr. Joanne Pashard, a Houston doctor, testified that on the morning of MJ's death, she called Murray asking him about one of his patients, who was about to undergo surgery in Texas. She said Murray had no problem recalling detailed information about the patient.

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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   2nd October 2013, 7:01 pm

posted by The Fairy October 13th 2011

TRIAL:

Witness statements


-Nader Kamangar (Sleep expert)

Sleep Expert -- Dr. Nader Kamangar Testifies
Updated 10/12/11 at 1:50 PM




Dr. Nadar Kamangar -- a pulmonary and critical care doctor who specializes in sleep medicine -- had some harsh words for Dr. Conrad Murray ... calling his use of Propofol "inconceivable," "unethical," and "disturbing."

Kamangar -- who is an adviser for the CA Medical Board -- said he found "multiple extreme deviations" in Murray's standard of care as it relates to insomnia.

* Dr. Kamangar told the court insomnia is a common problem in the ICU ... he said he uses Propofol on a daily basis.
* Kamangar said Propofol should be used with extreme caution because it can be unpredictable, especially when used with other sedatives.
* He said Murray's treatment of Michael Jackson amounted to "gross negligence."
* According to Kamangar , Murray should have never given MJ any sedatives because he was dehydrated ... which means his blood pressure was already low.
* He also said Murray's failure to call 911 was an "unconscionable deviation of care" adding, Murray wasted critical time calling MJ's assistant instead of calling 911.
* Kamangar told the court Murray broke one of the first rules of medicine -- putting your patient first -- when he witheld information from ER docs.
* He also said Murray behaved unethically when he chose to ignore "clear signs" of MJ's drug addiction.


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Video number 1 (Oct 12) Parts 1-9




video number 1 (Oct 13) Parts 1-13






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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 1:08 pm

posted by The Fairy October 20th 2011

TRIAL:

Witness statements

-Steven Shafer (Anesthesiologist)



Anesthesiologist Dr. Steven Shafer -- a leading Propofol expert who is expected to testify that Murray was criminally negligent in the way he treated Michael Jackson.

* Shafer told prosecutors he was hired by the company that makes Propofol 20 years ago, to help figure out the correct dosing for the drug.

Dr. Steven Shafer -- the final witness for the prosecution -- claims Dr. Conrad Murray has corrupted Shafer's patients ... because now, they're all terrified of Propofol.

Shafer told the jury today -- "I am asked every day in the OR, 'Are you going to give me the drug that killed Michael Jackson?'

* Last Thursday, Shafer told prosecutors he was hired 20 years ago by the company that produces Propofol to calibrate the correct dosing for the drug.
* Shafer said the exact dosage of Propofol is crucial -- because even a slight discrepancy could be the difference between a patient sleeping for a few minutes, and one sleeping for several hours.
* Jurors then watched a video that showed how Propofol should be used in the OR. The clip showed nurses and doctors successfully reviving a patient -- played by an actor -- suffering from a cardiac arrest. Prosecutors were trying to show the jury Dr. Murray was not equipped to handle an emergency situation when he treated MJ.

* As the video was played, Dr. Shafer gave a blow by blow how Propofol is administered.
* Shafer's key points:
- Infusion of drugs should be done ONLY through a pump to avoid overdosing.
- "Informed consent" is not just a piece of paper but a process in which the doctor informs the patient of all the risks, benefits and alternatives.
- A verbal consent is NOT binding.
- Record keeping is paramount
- If the patient stops breathing, the first thing a doctor should do... call for help.
* Shafer told prosecutors even when administering "a little bit" of Propofol, guidelines should be strictly followed because the worst disasters occur during sedation ... when doctors "cut corners."
* Shafer said Murray's treatment of MJ is both an "egregious" and "unconscionable" violation of standard care.
* He also called 15.5 liters of Propofol Murray bought -- about four gallons worth -- "an extraordinary amount" for one person.
* Shafer said Murray's lack of basic and essential monitoring devices are an egregious violation of care and contributed to MJ's death.
* The fact that Murray never kept any records is "unbelievable," according to Shafer.
* He said Murray "left the steering wheel" when he went to bathroom to relieve his bladder calling the doc "quite clueless."
* Shafer told prosecutors there are 2,500 articles about Propofol sedation... and only one -- very flawed -- article about Propofol and insomnia. He said, "We're in a pharmacological Never-Never Land. It's only ever been done to Michael Jackson in history as far as I know."


Videos 168 and onwards...

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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 1:11 pm

posted by The Fairy October 21st 2011

TRIAL:

Witness statements

-Steven Shafer (Anesthesiologist)

* He also said, there is absolutely no way Jackson could have caused his own death by swallowing Propofol -- as the defense first claimed -- because 99% of the drug would have been removed by the liver BEFORE going into the bloodstream.
* Shafer bulked at the defense's argument that Jackson may have caused his own death by swallowing 8 pills of Lorazepam ... because the toxicology report showed the amount of Lorazepam found in MJ's stomach was "trivial." According to his calculations, Murray would have had to inject MJ with 10 consecutive shots of 4 mg each to reach the the blood levels in the toxicology report.
* Dr. Shafer debunked another theory by the defense, telling jurors it's unlikely Jackson injected himself with a fatal dose of Propofol because it would have taken him way too long to do it without the doctor noticing ... and even if he did, he would have had to self-inject 6 shots of more than 100 ml. to reach the levels found in his blood after he died.




* Shafer said the only theory that fits is this: Murray started MJ on a 1000 mg Propofol drip at around 9 AM ... which caused the singer to stop breathing around noon.
* He said MJ was still on the drip when he died.
* In a dramatic moment, Shafer demonstrated to the jury how, he believed, Murray set up a Propofol drip. He said Murray failed to use an automated pump, which caused the anesthetic to drip at a dangerous rate.

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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 1:15 pm

posted by The Fairy October 22nd 2011

Cross examination

Witness statements

-Steven Shafer

* Defense attorney Ed Chernoff came out swinging during cross examination, challenging Shafer's testimony from Thursday in which he said there is no way Jackson killed himself with either Propofol or Lorazepam. "That's a bold statement isn't it?" Chernoff "asked " ... "That's what I think happened," Shafer shot back. "Everything you said is an opinion..." Chernoff said... to which Shafer responded, "To say that one should not lie to UCLA Medical Center is my opinion."
* Chernoff tried to discredit Shafer's testimony ... saying the IV tubing he used in his demonstration was not found at the scene. Shafer said Murray could have easily shoved it in his pocket before leaving MJ's room.
* Chernoff also pointed out Shafer used the wrong size syringe and IV bag in his demonstrations. Shafer brushed it off, saying he didn't think "size mattered."
* Chernoff also asked Shafer about his relationship with Dr. Paul White, the defense's Propofol expert... asking him if it's true that he nominated White for an "Excellence In Research" award. Shafer said he did.


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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 1:17 pm

posted by Nimue October 25th 2011

This is the video from yesterday the cross examination of Ed. It is so funny Ed having his thing at 31:00 and the faces Ed did... Dr. Shafer saying: "I wasn't there", also the judge getting really upset with Ed.

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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 1:18 pm

posted by The Fairy October 25th 2011

Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Tuesday, October 25th 2011 @ 5:50 AM

This is the video from yesterday the cross examination of Ed. It is so funny Ed having his thing at 31:00 and the faces Ed did... Dr. Shafer saying: "I wasn't there", also the judge getting really upset with Ed.
Hehehe... yes this was the one I was talking about yesterday on chat.

Ed also gets annoyed when David objects because he gets the name wrong. And Ed is the one trying to point out that the dr Shafer´s testimony wasnt correct.
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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 1:20 pm

posted by ElkeHassell October 26th 2011

Quote :
Quote from mjmtc on Tuesday, October 25th 2011 @ 7:06 AM

Hehehe... yes this was the one I was talking about yesterday on chat.

Ed also gets annoyed when David objects because he gets the name wrong. And Ed is the one trying to point out that the dr Shafer´s testimony wasnt correct.
LOL I finally got around to watch the video of a possessed ED! Halloween being around the corner I wonder very much what possessed him! Damn that was something else, a dose of PMT maybe, a fight with the wife? But he surely behaved extraordinaily BAD!!!! I laughed all the way and could not help but watch those faces from the court transcript writer, the judge, Brazil and David, it was just priceless.
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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 1:28 pm

posted by ElkeHassell December 20th 2011

MJJC Exclusive Q&A with Dr. Steve Shafer - Read his answers - Part 1

Before I post Dr. Steve Shafer's answers to our questions, I think I must tell you what happened behind the scenes so that you can understand the generosity of Dr. Shafer better and realize what a wonderful human being he is.

When we approach people for Q&A's , we generally have a discussion about a reasonable number of questions that they are willing to answer. In the end the questions we send range between 15 to 25.

When I asked Dr. Shafer if he would do a Q&A with us and he replied as "Yes", we were all ecstatic. It was such a wonderful opportunity to ask questions about Michael's death that still bothered us. Surprisingly rather than giving me a maximum question number, Dr. Shafer asked me to send him the questions as they come. Soon enough I realized that he was planning on answering them all. To be honest I couldn't even believe that it was happening. It was beyond our expectations.

I omitted some questions that was either i)similar to questions asked before ii) too general iii)clearly out of Dr. Shafer's area of expertise and iv)too confusing. I sent him 86 questions and he answered them all.

In his conversations with Gaz, Dr. Alon Steinberg would describe Dr. Shafer as "bright and unselfish". Indeed, Dr. Shafer might be the most generous person I have ever seen. I thought that you all should know that not only Dr.Shafer agreed to our Q&A but answered all the questions we sent his way. Dr. Steve Shafer deserves all the credit.

Furthermore Dr. Shafer also told me that he would be happy to answer any follow up questions if needed. Well if that happens let's agree to send him a more reasonable number of questions this time.

Now as we have 86 questions, I will be posting Dr. Shafer's answers in 3 parts - so that we can discuss them better.

Part 1 will be posted today (December 19). It will have 28 questions covering Michael Jackson, Dr. Steve Shafer and Murray Trial in general.

Part 2 will be posted on December 21. It will have 33 questions covering Dr. White, Conrad Murray and Michael's death.

Part 3 will be posted on December 23. It will have 25 questions covering Propofol, Demerol, Lorazepam, Flumanezil, Insomnia etc..

So once again I want to thank Dr. Steve Shafer for his generosity for answering our high number of questions. And let's start discussing.


Twitter : Ivy_MJJC
Email: ivy@mjjcommunity.com

Re: MJJC Exclusive Q&A with Dr. Steve Shafer - Read his answers - Part 1 posted

MJJC Exclusive Q&A with Dr. Steve Shafer Part 1

This is Part 1 of 3 of Dr. Steve Shafer's answers to MJJCommunity questions. In this first installment Dr. Shafer will be answering questions about Michael Jackson, himself (Dr. Shafer) and Conrad Murray trial in general.



Questions about Michael Jackson in general

MJJC: Have you ever listened to Michael Jackson’s music and if yes, what song is your favorite?

Dr. Steve Shafer: I grew up listening to Michael Jackson’s music, just like the rest of the world. Thriller was the only album that I knew well, and “Beat it” is my favorite track from it. The message and the music both appealed to me.


MJJC: What was your opinion about Michael Jackson before this trial?

Dr. Steve Shafer: I knew very little about his personal life, other than the occasional sensational headlines. I intentionally read nothing about his life before the trial, because I did not want to introduce bias into my testimony. I’ve read a lot since the trial.


MJJC:Did your opinion about Michael Jackson change during and after this trial? Positively or negatively, and what is your current opinion about Michael Jackson?

Dr. Steve Shafer: Yes. During the trial I saw him as a patient, just like many patients I’ve cared for. During the trial I had no mental image of Michael Jackson as an icon or famous entertainer. He was a patient who died receiving medical care. It was important to keep focused on him as a patient.

Having said that, I was conscious that his interactions with Conrad Murray were, in part, a tragic side effect of his wealth. I spent 20 years on the faculty at Stanford University, and more recently at Columbia University. Patients who are very wealthy often choose a big-name medical center. Most wealthy patients are very kind and decent people. However, I occasionally encounter a wealthy patient who believes that because he or she is rich, he or she can simply tell me how to give anesthesia. That is what they are used to: giving orders and having people say “yes.” I believe that Michael Jackson fell into this trap: believing that he could tell doctors what to do and expect them say “yes.” This doesn’t excuse his doctors for saying “yes.” However, wealth and fame can be a curse.

My opinion of Michael Jackson is that he was an immensely gifted musician, entertainer, and genuinely compassionate individual. However, he was thrust into (well deserved) stardom as a youngster, and spent his entire life under the glare of public scrutiny. That does not seem like a blessing to me. To me it seems like a tragedy. He never lived a normal life.


MJJC: During the trial, the defense and various media outlets repeatedly called Michael Jackson a "drug addict". Based on your knowledge and research in this case, would you say that Michael Jackson was a "drug addict" or not?

Dr. Steve Shafer: “Addiction” is a lay term, not a medical term. The correct medical term is substance dependency. You will find an accurate explanation of this in Wikipedia. You can also find a good description at http://www.csam-asam.org/pdf/misc/DS..._diagnosis.doc.

I think Michael Jackson likely had a dependency on sedatives at the time of his death, because he was receiving intravenous sedatives every night. That type of regular exposure is almost certain to cause dependency.



MJJC: Can Dr. Shafer render an opinion on the chronic condition of Michael’s lungs (respiratory bronchiolitis, multifocal chronic interstitial pneumonitis, chronic inflammation)? Some TV doctor (Dr. Drew) alleged that it could be due to continuous/long term Propofol use. However MJ is known to have Pleurisy at 1977 and reported to say “he had a blister on his lungs” in later years. Could it be caused by the Propofol or could it be related to his Lupus?

Dr. Steve Shafer: Propofol is commonly used for infusions in intensive care units. I am not aware of any primary effect of propofol on the lungs. However, because Michael Jackson’s trachea (windpipe) was not protected while he was receiving propofol, he could have regularly inhaled small amounts of saliva or regurgitated stomach contents while anesthetized from propofol. That can damage the lungs and produce chronic inflammation.


Questions about Dr. Shafer in general

MJJC: Since your father passed away during the trial, was it hard to do the testimony? (and please accept our most sincere condolences for your loss)

Dr. Steve Shafer: I’ve shared with some members of the MJJCommunity my personal story about my father’s passing. I’ll spare you the details, other than to say that for me, the trial brought me an unexpected gift: the chance to be with my father when he died. Had it not been for the trial, I would have been in New Jersey. As it was, I was at his bedside, offering love and morphine. (I can only hope that one of my kids decides to take up a career in anesthesia.)

During my testimony, I felt that my father was beside me. It gave me confidence, particularly during cross examination. I knew that since my Dad was with me, I’d be OK.


MJJC: During testimony we learned that you drank Propofol. Did you drink it before you conducted the scientific research? What prompted you to drink it yourself?

Dr. Steve Shafer: I knew that the defense would reject animal studies as not applying to humans, just as Paul White did when asked about animal studies of propofol in urine. There is no way that I could conduct a human study in the US in three months, so I thought the best evidence I could get was to simply drink propofol and report if it had any effects. I knew the pharmacology well enough to be absolutely certain it was inert.

About a week later my colleague Pablo Sepulveda in Chile told me he would be able to conduct a clinical trial in volunteers. That made my drinking propofol completely irrelevant.

However, please remember that propofol is unique in the complete “first pass” metabolism. One should not try this with other drugs. Indeed, many drugs on the anesthesia cart would be fatal if consumed like that. This should not be attempted as a party trick!


MJJC: Any comments on Mr. Chernoff referring to you as a "cop"?

Dr. Steve Shafer: No, that’s his job. It didn’t bother me at all.


MJJC: During your cross examination Defense asked "Are you aware that everything you said here was your merely your opinion?" In your answer you concluded that this was an interesting question- where does 'personal opinion' end and where does "Dr. Shafer" begin? So did you, Dr. Shafer, come to any conclusion in this conundrum? Do you consider it wise or even desirable to split your mind in the Dr. figure- and Steven Shafer? Is it even possible to do so? What would the result most likely be? Could there be considerable "strength" in a personal, honest opinion?

Dr. Steve Shafer: I thought about that question quite a bit afterwards. I was not expecting it, probably because I am not an experienced expert witness. This was only the second time I have testified in court.

Mr. Chernoff was playing to my scientific training. Scientists are reluctant to state that something is a certain fact. There is evidence, and conclusions, but science is always open to new evidence and new conclusions. His asking me “wasn’t your testimony entirely your opinion” was an invitation to say “yes”, based on my interpreting “your opinion” as referring to my scientific opinion. If I had answered “yes,” it would have opened the door for him to say in his closing statement “Dr. Shafer himself admitted that his views were just his opinions.” That would play to the common use of “opinion” as mere speculation unsupported by data.

There were two aspects to my testimony: standard of care, and propofol pharmacology. I need to discuss fact vs. opinion for these separately.

Many aspects of the “standard of care” have been codified by organizations. For example, the American Society of Anesthesiologists has practice guidelines that very clearly spell out the standard of care during administration of anesthesia. My testimony was based largely on those guidelines. One could argue that it was merely my “opinion” to represent the published guidelines of the American Society of Anesthesiologists as fact. However, it is a fact that they have published guidelines on the standard of care, and those published guidelines were the basis of my “opinion.”

There are aspects of the standard of care are not covered by published guidelines because they are self-evident. I believe doctors should not lie. I believe Conrad Murray’s misrepresentation of the drugs that he gave to Michael Jackson was an unconscionable violation of the standard of care. Is it my opinion? Yes. However, I think every person on the planet shares my opinion that a doctor should not lie. Similarly, it is my opinion that doctors must place the interest of their patients ahead of their personal interests. That is my “opinion.” However, again I think it is an opinion that is universally shared. Can that be dismissed as “mere opinion?”

Regarding the scientific part of the testimony, my “opinion” is that of an expert in the field. The simulations I presented were mathematically accurate representations of the pharmacokinetics. Baring a mathematical error on my part, the simulations show exactly the blood and effect site propofol concentrations predicted by specific pharmacokinetic models for specific doses. The “expert” aspect is to decide what doses should be simulated, and whether these are likely scenarios. I did a lot of simulations, and even shared with the defense my spreadsheets so that they could do simulations as well. I chose some over others based on data. That is an “expert opinion.” However, it is more scientifically precise to say “conclusion, based on the data” that to call it “opinion”, since the latter implies uninformed speculation.


MJJC: Did it amuse you like it did many when Dr. White was called "Dr. Shafer" several times in court by Prosecution, Defense and even the Judge?

Dr. Steve Shafer: Yes. I think everyone was amused.


MJJC: Have you met any of the Jackson Family before, in between or after the trial? If so did they ever asked you any medical questions?

Dr. Steve Shafer: I spoke with them briefly several times walking to or from the courtroom. They were very kind, and offered condolences on the death of my father. I shared that we both had suffered loss, and offered condolences in return. I appreciated their kindness.


MJJC: Did your life change after this trial? If yes, positively or negatively?

Dr. Steve Shafer: I learned a huge amount from the trial, including:
• A lot about the pharmacology of propofol and lorazepam (I did a LOT of reading to educate myself on the issues, and to respond to claims made by the defense).
• Something about how the criminal justice system works. I was impressed by what I saw. In particular, the office of the District Attorney was absolutely honest and transparent. This was not a “game.” It was an attempt to determine the truth.
• Different approaches to discerning truth. In science, “truth” is determined by experiment, observation, peer review, and the ever-questioning nature of science. In science, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. In criminal law, “truth” is determined by a jury that arrives knowing almost nothing, the exact opposite of peer reviewers. In criminal law, the burden of proof is on the prosecution. The defense can assert anything without evidence. I learned that both systems work.

I have received wonderful feedback from my professional colleagues. It won’t change me, but it has been rewarding.

I have had very kind letters from the Michael Jackson community. I did not expect these, but they have been appreciated.


MJJC: What do you think about Michael Jackson fans love and appreciation towards you? Do you know that many fans publicly express their love and gratitude to you, and use your pictures and quotes to express themselves? What do you think about that?

Dr. Steve Shafer: It didn’t expect it! However, I do understand that not knowing what happened to Michael Jackson has been a cause of considerable pain to his millions of fans. If my testimony was helpful, and perhaps brought a closure to his passing so they can again focus on his music and message, then I’m honored to have had the opportunity.

I have tried to answer many of the e-mails I have received. I am appreciative of the kind comments I have received from his fans all over the world.


MJJC: Now that the trial is over what’s next for Dr. Steve Shafer? Returning to practice? Teaching? Patient education and advocacy?

Dr. Steve Shafer: All of the above.

I did not watch the first two days of Paul White’s testimony, because I was back in the operating rooms at Columbia University giving anesthesia. I love clinical anesthesia. I love taking care of patients. We all need to define who we are. For me, it’s simple: I’m a doctor. I care for patients. If I ever stop caring for patients, I won’t know who I am. That’s what I do.

Having said that, my work as Editor-in-Chief of Anesthesia & Analgesia requires about 60 hours per week. Even during the trial I would go home and read a dozen new submissions every night, assign editors and reviewers, and process another dozen decision letters. I will be doing that every day until my term as Editor-in-Chief ends in 2016.

I continue to teach. You will get a laugh at the most recent lecture I have given at Columbia: the role of clinical pharmacology (e.g., pharmacokinetics) in the trial of Conrad Murray.

Anesthesia & Analgesia is the largest medical journal in the field of anesthesiology. I use Anesthesia & Analgesia as a platform to advocate for patient education, patient care, and patient safety (http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org). Only rarely does that involve my own writing. The Journal advances patient care through editorial policies anchored in doing what is best for patients.

I continue to pursue my own research, primarily modeling the behavior of drugs used in anesthesia. Much of this is now in collaboration with my wife, Pamela Flood, who is the chief of Obstetrical Anesthesia at the University of California in San Francisco.

I am actively involved in developing new drugs to improve the safety of anesthesia and pain management. In 2003 I co-founded a biotech company to develop better drugs for anesthesia and pain management. You can find it at http://www.pharmacofore.com. Our work is progressing well, and this also consumes some of my attention.


MJJC: How the medical community has responded/reacted towards you since your testimony?

Dr. Steve Shafer: The response has been uniformly positive. There has been considerable appreciation that I spoke for the values that physicians hold, as well as for clearly explaining the medical and scientific issues involved. I didn’t testify to garner any attention or recognition, and it makes me a little uncomfortable. However, the validation of my testimony from my medical colleagues has been affirming that I did the right thing.


MJJC: Did media approach you for interviews? If yes, why didn’t we see you on TV?

Dr. Steve Shafer: Yes, I was approached, but I don’t think the interviews were aired. I think the reason is that they didn’t like my answers. I was asked about what I thought Conrad Murray’s sentence should be. I answered honestly that I didn’t have the background to judge that. I said that our lawmakers determine the appropriate sentences for criminal behavior, and judges then impose sentences based on the dictates of the law. I said that this was really a question for Judge Pastor, who IS an expert. I don’t think they liked that answer. They probably hoped for something much more vengeful from me.

I was asked how I felt about my role in convicting Conrad Murray. I honestly replied that I don’t think I had much of a role. Conrad Murray gave Michael Jackson propofol in a bedroom, with no training, no monitoring, no backup, no accountability, abandoned him to talk on the phone, and then lied about his action. His guilt was obvious when the facts emerged in 2009, and it just as obvious after my testimony.


MJJC: One of the most shocking parts of Dr. White’s testimony was when he admitted that he had not fully reviewed the current scientific literature on Propofol. Under cross-examination he also admitted that had not completely read the journal articles that were used to create the Propofol simulations that he presented as the basis of his court testimony. As a scientist I found this to be extremely irresponsible professional behavior. Can you please discuss how you prepared for your testimony in this trial?

Dr. Steve Shafer: I spent dozens, and perhaps hundreds, of hours in preparation. I read well over 100 papers. I analyzed the data numerous ways, and even made my spreadsheets available to the defense. I did the “heavy lifting” that is expected of an expert. This isn’t unique to this case – it’s how I approach everything I do.


MJJC: Judge Pastor picked out Murray's recording of MJ as the piece of evidence that affected him the most during the trial. Was there any one thing that affected Dr Shafer in all the evidence that he looked at?

Dr. Steve Shafer: Yes, the consistency Conrad Murray’s behavior. In the sentencing hearing Judge Pastor outlined in detail Conrad Murray’s pattern of repeated lying, self-serving actions, and reckless disregard for the wellbeing of his patient. That was what I saw also.


MJJC: How did you decide to choose your profession? What did it start with?

Dr. Steve Shafer: Many physicians choose a medical career very early in life. I knew from the time I was 9 years old that I wanted to be a physician. The inspiration was my pediatrician. He seemed to know absolutely everything, and I was amazed at the breath of his knowledge. Additionally, every year he spent several months on the “Ship Hope” practicing medicine in third world countries. I profoundly admired his sense of service to others. That was my role model


MJJC: Did any of your parents relate to medical sphere?

Dr. Steve Shafer: I am the first physician in my family. My father was a management consultant, and my mother was a housewife. Both of them took pride in having a son who went to medical school. I became the family resource for all medical questions.


MJJC: Did your father know about your intention to take a stand in Conrad Murray's trial? If yes, what were his thoughts about it, if any?

Dr. Steve Shafer: Yes. He liked it a lot. He told me it made him proud. He was also aware that I was visiting him every day because I was in Los Angeles for the trial.

He watched my testimony on Thursday morning, and died that evening.


Questions about trial in general

MJJC: What do you think about DA Walgren?

Dr. Steve Shafer: He is brilliant, dedicated, and absolutely honest. He worked incredibly hard. I think he got about 4 hours of sleep every night of the trial.

Part of my job was educating Mr. Walgren in the science. By the time of the trial, he was occasionally correcting my calculations! He was so effective when dealing with expert opinion in part because he truly understood the scientific principles.

As a taxpayer, it is amazing that attorneys like Mr. Walgren work for the State of California at a public servant’s salary. We are really getting our money’s worth!


MJJC: Did you see Judge Pastor give his sentencing statement? Any comments on that?

Dr. Steve Shafer: Yes, I watched it live. I smiled when Judge Pastor used specific words and ideas that I introduced in my testimony. Also, having read all of the documents numerous times, it was clear to me that Conrad Murray repeatedly lied. However, that was irrelevant to my testimony, and so I appropriately kept that opinion to myself. I appreciated hearing the judge, who is better able to judge Murray’s veracity than I am, lay out the pattern of self-serving lies by Conrad Murray.


MJJC: Do you think Murray just made a 'fatal mistake' or do you think it’s something more?

Dr. Steve Shafer: The fatal mistake was saying “Yes” to Michael Jackson’s request for a physician to administer propofol. That was followed by innumerable other fatal mistakes, but it all traces back to the initial lack of judgment.

MJJC: Do you believe Murray got the appropriate charge of Manslaughter or do you believe what he did was much more serious that it should have been something like Murder 2?

Dr. Steve Shafer: I’m not qualified to judge this, and am very glad I was not asked for an opinion on this during my testimony. I am glad he was found guilty. That was important: doctors are accountable for their actions. We are not above the law.

I only gave one television interview after the trial, because I had to teach a course (www.nonmemcourse.com) immediately after the trial. I was asked what I thought about the fact that the worse possible sentence was 4 years in jail. I answered that I wasn’t qualified to render an opinion. I think they wanted a much more bloodthirsty response, because they never ran the interview.


MJJC: What kind of punishment would be appropriate in your personal opinion?

Dr. Steve Shafer: Emphasizing that this is just my uninformed personal opinion, I believe that he must lose his license, never practice medicine again, and be accountable to the Jackson family. Please let me emphasize again that criminal punishment isn’t something I know about.


MJJC: In his closing argument Ed Chernoff stated once more that "lack of record keeping did not kill Michael Jackson". Would you find this a particularly irresponsible assumption- especially in light of your lengthy and detailed explanation of Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics? Would Ed Chernoff's closing argument be especially irresponsible and outrageous- considering that the assumed physician did not keep any records?

Dr. Steve Shafer: Mr. Chernoff’s statement is false. The lack of record keeping did contribute to Michael Jackson’s death. Without records Conrad Murray could not look for trends, such as seeing if larger doses were needed each day. Without records Conrad Murray could not look at past doses to determine what was a safe dose, and what was a dangerous dose.

Record keeping re-enforces vigilance. When you write down the vital signs every 5 minutes, it forces you to keep an eye on the patient. Record keeping would have forced Conrad Murray to stay close to Michael Jackson and continuously write down vital signs (at a minimum he had the pulse oximeter on the finger and could physically count the rate of breathing and heart rate). Record keeping would have forced Conrad Murray to monitor the intravenous infusion rate. Record keeping might have kept Michael Jackson alive. Thus, Mr. Chernoff’s statement is false.


MJJC: Lots of hyperbole has been made of the IV tubing/matching/non matching. Could you explain in detail once more (with no defense attorney interrupting) why this has no bearing on the statements made by you?

Dr. Steve Shafer: I initially believed that the IV tubing that Conrad Murray purchased in large quantities from Sea Coast Medical was non-vented, because I did not see the vent in the picture taken by the medical examiner, no vent is described in the product description from Sea Coast Medical, and I was unsuccessful in my initial effort to purchase the tubing from Sea Coast Medical. It turns out that it was vented, which I only realized after I physically examined the tubing in court.

However, the fact that the smaller infusion set was vented only increases the ease with which Conrad Murray set up the infusion, and the ease of concealing the tubing set on the day Michael Jackson died.

However, it still comes back to the big picture: Conrad Murray was giving Michael Jackson an anesthetic drug in his bedroom with inadequate training, inadequate monitoring, and no backup. That is why Michael Jackson died. None of these issues changes the big picture.


Note: Part 2 of 3 will be posted December 21st.


Twitter : Ivy_MJJC
Email: ivy@mjjcommunity.com





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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 1:31 pm

At November 1st 2011 Shafer was called back to the stand:


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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 1:34 pm

posted by The Fairy January 25th 2012

Witness: Michael Jackson’s doctor erred in giving drug

Dr. Steve Shafer calls the use of propofol “jaw dropping.”
By Anne Geggis
Staff writer
Published: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 at 9:50 p.m.
Last Modified: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 at 9:50 p.m.

The drug that killed Michael Jackson might have revolutionized surgery — making recovery much easier to take — but Dr. Conrad Murray's administration of it to the pop star was “jaw dropping,” according to the anesthesiologist who testified for the prosecution.

Fresh from the November trial, Dr. Steve Shafer, a professor of anesthesiology at Columbia University, was a visiting professor at the University of Florida College of Medicine this week to talk about his role in the trial and other topics with medical trainees.

Murray, a cardiologist, was sentenced to four years in prison for involuntary manslaughter on Nov. 29. Jackson had been in Murray's care at the time of his death.

Testimony at the trial showed Murray had administered the surgical anesthetic propofol to Jackson just before his death after the pop star begged him to give him something to sleep.

“To see that drug administered in that setting suggested … (Murray) had no clue what he was doing,” Shafer said. “MJ could have requested intravenous maple syrup, but that doesn't excuse Murray giving it to him.”

Shafer, however, said he rejects the notion that his testimony served as the linchpin of the prosecution's case that prompted the jury to return the verdict after two days of deliberations.

“He was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter for exactly the same reasons that were obvious 48 hours after MJ passed away,” he said.

Shafer said that propofol has improved patients' experience of surgery tremendously and, even though there is potential for abuse, he's against scheduling the drug as the federal government classifies drugs like cocaine, heroin, marijuana and powerful prescription painkillers.

That's because surgeons in the operating room need access to large amounts and quickly, which would become problematic if propofol was scheduled.

“In the recovery room, you used to see people throwing up,” he said. “Now you see them awake, comfortable and not miserable at all.”

The problem is that it also depresses the breathing reflex. he said.

He said that the trend that made Florida the center of trafficking for powerful prescription painkillers also has made many of his colleagues reluctant to prescribe them — even for people at the end of life, managing cancer pain or dealing with chronic pain.

“The long-term solution requires new biology — drugs that treat pain without opioids,” he said. “What makes opioids so good is that they block pain. And the part of the brain that deals with physical pain is the same part that deals with psychological pain.”
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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 1:45 pm

posted by The Fairy October 25th 2011

TRIAL:

Witness statements

-dr Allan Metzger

-dr Allan Metzger

Murray's lawyers then questioned Dr. Allan Metzger -- who claimed the singer had been struggling with sleeping problems for 15 years, and begged him for IV drugs as early as April 2009.

TRIAL COVERAGE FROM CNN:

Dr. Allan Metzger testified that Michael Jackson asked him for IV sleep medication a little more than a month before he died. Dr. Metzger said he told the King of Pop that any IV sleep medication would be dangerous.

Jackson received treatment from Dr. Metzger for close to 20 years for multiple issues including nutrition, sleep and pain.

Jackson met with Dr. Metzger on April 18, 2009 and asked for IV sleep meds, which he called "juice." The doctor didn’t know what he meant at first.

"I don't recall him naming medicines... but I do remember him saying many medicines did not work... I had personally tried him on Tylenol PM, which did not work," said Dr. Metzger. "We had tried Zanax... and on that visit, I gave him Klonopin or trazodone, to be used not together."

During cross examination, prosecutor David Walgren asked if Dr. Metzger had ever given Jackson propofol.

Walgren said, "Any amount of money that would have convinced you to give him propofol in his house?"

"Never," replied Dr. Metzger.


Vid to be added when uploaded

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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 1:47 pm

posted by Nimue October 25th 2011

This is his testimony from another youtube channel, The video is 38 minutes long.

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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 4:56 pm

posted by The Fairy October 25th 2011

INTERVIEW w CNN

June 30, 2009

-Cherilyn Lee (Practitioner nurse)



Transcript of Cherilyn Lee interview




Cherilyn Lee is a holisitic health practitioner and has been in healthcare for 23 years, her Web site states.

Campbell Brown
CNN

Campbell: we have some breaking news to share with you now on Michael Jackson’s medical condition on the days before he died. A nurse practitioner whose specialty includes nutritional counseling says that Jackson suffered from insomnia and he had begged her to inject him with a powerful sedative. That nurse is Cherilyn Lee and joining us right now by telephone. Welcome to you.

Cherilyn Lee: oh, thank you very much, thank you.

Campbell: appreciate you talking to us about this. I want you to start by telling us about this phone call that you got. This was two Sundays ago, June 21st, from a member of Michael Jackson’s staff. What happened?

Cherilyn Lee: well, I received a call, I was in Florida. And unfortunately, I was actually in the hospital myself in the E.R. in Florida. And I received the call and I could hear Mr. Jackson in the background saying please have her come see me now. Can she come now? And the person in on the other end, which I know the person, but I’d prefer not to give out their names. Because they know me quite well said that Mr. Jackson really, really needs you. He is experiencing - they told me the symptoms and I said that is very serious, you need to go to the hospital. Unfortunately I’m not in town so I cannot come and see you. But you need to go to the hospital. I’m very - I was really afraid because of the symptoms he was telling me.

Campbell: what were those symptoms?

Cherilyn Lee: the symptoms were one side of his body felt cold and one side of his body felt hot.

Campbell: and what did that mean to you?

Cherilyn Lee: well, that meant - it could have meant a couple of things. It could have meant something going on in the nervous system, or something cardiovascular, but more than nervous system because of the brain itself. and I had already gone through - I think this is why he was reaching out for me Sunday because I had already about three months ago went through all of the symptoms this medication that he wanted that his doctor told him and I don't know who his doctor is. His doctor told him that this was safe.

Campbell: and you were talking - I’m sorry, go ahead.

Cherilyn Lee: I’m sorry.

Campbell: no, you're talking about just correct me if I’m wrong, you're talking about that drug called dipervan, is that correct?

Cherilyn Lee: yes

Campbell: and was he asking you for the drug?

Cherilyn Lee: he was asking me for the drug. And he was asking me about it three months ago and I said I don't know what that is so I excused myself from where he was, and I made a call to a friend who was a physician and I said what is? At first I thought he was mispronouncing it. Are you speaking of something else? He said no. and when I spoke with the physician he said that is a very - you do not - he asked me, he said who is asking about this drug? This is a medication you only really give in ICU.

Campbell: and it's a sedative, a painkiller?

Cherilyn Lee: it is a - you know, still I don't want to go into a whole lot of detail with it. It’s in the PDR, I sat down with Michael and I said I actually left him that day because he didn't understand. He kept thinking this was safe. I went all the way back to my office, went back to him and said, look. This medication is not safe. I don't know who is telling you this is safe. It isn't. He said I just want to get some sleep. You don't understand. I want the IV when it drips in my hand; I want to be able to be knocked out and go to sleep. And this was the very first time, even though we had discussed this before that I told him, you know, it is so painful because I actually felt it in my whole spirit. I said if you take that, you know, you want to be knocked out, and I’m so sorry but if you take this you might not wake up.

Campbell: do you know if he took your advice? Did he go to the hospital? Was there any way to follow-up?

Cherilyn Lee: what happened was, I was actually at the hospital myself. I was in the emergency room in St. Petersburg. And was being admitted myself. So I tried to call back later and I could not reach anyone. And I was - I was in Florida for a couple of days there. When I arrived back in L.A., I still was trying to reach, you know, I could not reach anyone. So I didn't know whether or not he had gone.

Campbell: did you go to the authorities with any of this?

Cherilyn Lee: no

Campbell: did you think about doing that?

Cherilyn Lee: well, when I saw it on the news I kind of felt I knew what happened. And I just didn't really - I really didn't know what to do. I was saddened; I heard there was a physician there.

Campbell: do you know - do you know if there was a doctor who may have given him this drug?

Cherilyn Lee: I don't know of any doctors. I don't know of anyone that was seeing him. He just told me - because I asked him, what doctor gave him this drug, 'oh it was a long time ago.

Campbell: so just to give a sense of your relationship with him, how long had you known him, what was the relationship?

Cherilyn Lee: well I met him in January. And because someone called me and said his children had a runny nose and a little cough and could I come out to the house and see them. And because it was a referral person he felt very comfortable. And so when I arrived at the house I saw three children. And actually I love working with children and I kind of set something up for them some vitamin c and, you know, as a practitioner I listened to their lungs to make sure they were clear and went ahead and did the routine physical exam and everything. And after I finished with the children and had given them some vitamin c that they had, you know, the vitamin c powder and a couple of other things, it's a homeopathic; they told their dad they were feeling a lot better. So he looked at me and said what else do you do? And so I said well I help people, you know, when they want to very more energy. And he said, oh, well, okay, that's really good. And so we start taking it from there and I try to find out why is it you don't have any energy? And just went through the whole course of, you know, not that day. He asked me if I could come back the following day. So I went and drew some blood, maybe you're anemic or maybe it's this or that, but let's not second guess anything. I did full lab work. A full work-up on him. Then I told him from there that nutritionally we could get you set up.

Campbell: right. And his doctor was also working with him presumably yet? Dr. Murray.

Cherilyn Lee: I don't know. I didn't see anybody. I didn't see anybody in January. February, March, there was a time he did go to London, so -he was out. But I never heard of a doctor, I never did see anyone.

Campbell: all right.

Cherilyn Lee: I told him I prefer to do continuity of care with someone. And I didn't see anyone.


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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 5:11 pm

posted by The Fairy October 25th 2011

TRIAL

Witness statements

-Cherilyn Lee (Practitioner nurse)



At the very end of the day, the defense called nurse practitioner Cherilyn Lee -- who testified during the preliminary hearing that Jackson asked her for Propofol as well while she treated him in 2009.

TRAIL COVERAGE FROM CNN

IVs aren't just for propofol
Posted: 10:32 PM ET

Nurse practioner Cherilyn Lee testified that she hooked Michael Jackson up to multiple IVs to infuse the King of Pop with a nutritional cocktail.

“It’s the Myer’s Cocktail, which is Vitamin C, B Vitamin, magnesium, calcium,” said Lee.

Lee testified she was treating Jackson for symptoms of fatigue. She believed part of the problem was Jackson’s love of Red Bull. Lee suggested the caffeine-laden drink was causing Jackson to feel tired, because too much caffeine can actually can cause some people to feel tired.

Jackson also complained to Lee that he had trouble sleeping, and even had Lee observe his struggle with insomnia a couple of times. On April 19, 2009 about a month before Jackson died, Lee sat by the pop star’s bedside as he tried to sleep.

Lee said, “He had an I.V. going, yes, of Myer’s Cocktail and Vitamin C. And he’d had some Sleepy Time tea . . . this time, he actually slept five hours.”

Lee also testified that at some point that night Jackson woke up and requested sleep medication.

TUESDAY
Dizzy defense witness asks the judge for a break

Defense witness Cherilyn Lee has asked for a break. She didn't even get to answer the first question! Lead defense attorney Ed Chernoff had just asked her if her records indicated that she visited Michael Jackson on April 12, 2009.

"I suddenly feel very dizzy and my vision is kind of blurry," Lee said." If I could just rest a little bit, I would appreciate it very much." She then began to cry. "This is just very sensitive for me."

The judge told her that her health should be her first concern. He allowed her to leave the witness stand and take a break.

"Hopefully we’ll see you in not too long," the judge told her.


Nurse: No one who cares will give you propofol
Posted: 03:10 PM ET

Nurse practitioner Cherilyn Lee testified that Michael Jackson asked her to give him propofol to help him sleep. Fighting back tears, Lee said she told Jackson that nobody who cares or has your best interests at heart will give you propofol.

When Jackson first asked Lee for the anesthetic, she says she didn’t know much about it. Lee says she researched propofol and found out pretty quickly that it wasn’t used to treat sleep disorders and it wasn’t safe for use in a home setting.

Lee says she spent the night at Jackson's house so she could observe his sleep patterns. When Jackson woke up after about three hours of sleep, she says he told her that propofol was the only thing that would get him to sleep right away.

Lee testified that she warned Jackson of the side effects the drugs including:

-Dizziness

-Agitation

-Chills

-Delirium

-Fever

-Memory loss

-Death

Lee said she asked Jackson, "What happens if you don’t wake up?" Jackson replied that he would be OK and only needed a doctor to monitor him. Judge Michael Pastor then gave Lee a moment to compose herself as she was brought to tears.




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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 5:14 pm

posted by Nimue October 25th 2011


Monday



Tuesday (Cherilyn Lee is dizzy)



From the start and until 0:53:18

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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 5:15 pm

posted by Nimue October 25th 2011

I was wondering.. in a real case with a good prosecutor, the testimony of the nurse and Mestzer could make a real damage on the defense case.

Both the nurse and Dr. Metzer were with the Michael on April 19, Michael didn't ask for propofol to any of them at this time. Dr. Mestzer prescribed only sleep pills for Michael insomnia problem and the nurse only vitamins.

On April 19, Michael had not asked for any unortodoxy treatment to two health professionals, however Murray had already ordered propofol on April 6, if Murray was not treating him with propofol at April 19 it could show Murray's intent to use propofol without even being asked by Michael. Since at this time, Michael was not talking about propofol to any other physician or health professional.

Murray's says he started treating Michael on May 01 (AEG), but says on the record to LAPD he was giving propofol to Michael for 80 days, If we assume the second statement correct, on April 19 Murray had already started the treatment with propofol or had the intent to used.

PS: Michael slept 5 hours without any prescription drugs, just vitamins at this time. Where were the propofol bought by Murray? Vanished?

PS2: Michael asks about propofol to Cherilyn after April 19, after Murray had already bought it.

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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 5:16 pm

posted by MaryJo October 25th 2011

I wonder who paid for MJs Propofol & medical supplies.

4 gallons of Propofol must be very pricey...Who paid for it??

I highly doubt Murray paid out of pocket, who paid for it??

Whoever paid the Propofol bill should be the one held accountable.

If AEG is paying the propofol bill...wouldnt it raise AEG eyebrows as to the quantity of propofol being consumed??

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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 5:18 pm

posted by MaryJo October 25th 2011

Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Tuesday, October 25th 2011 @ 8:33 AM

I was wondering.. in a real case with a good prosecutor, the testimony of the nurse and Mestzer could make a real damage on the defense case.

Both the nurse and Dr. Metzer were with the Michael on April 19, Michael didn't ask for propofol to any of them at this time. Dr. Mestzer prescribed only sleep pills for Michael insomnia problem and the nurse only vitamins.

On April 19, Michael had not asked for any unortodoxy treatment to two health professionals, however Murray had already ordered propofol on April 6, if Murray was not treating him with propofol at April 19 it could show Murray's intent to use propofol without even being asked by Michael. Since at this time, Michael was not talking about propofol to any other physician or health professional.

Murray's says he started treating Michael on May 01 (AEG), but says on the record to LAPD he was giving propofol to Michael for 80 days, If we assume the second statement correct, on April 19 Murray had already started the treatment with propofol or had the intent to used.

PS: Michael slept 5 hours without any prescription drugs, just vitamins at this time. Where were the propofol bought by Murray? Vanished?

PS2: Michael asks about propofol to Cherilyn after April 19, after Murray had already bought it.
Everybody says hes healthy...

But in reality a healthy person isn't hooked up to in home IV infusions... somethings terribly wrong with that picture.

The nurse practioner says his medical reports show hes healthy & then in her next breath shes hooking him up to vitamin IV infusion & giving him B12 shots. Maybe she just wants to make money so she hooking him up.

Healthy people dont need in home IV infusions.


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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 5:21 pm

posted by Nimue October 25th 2011

Quote :
But in reality a healthy person isn't hooked up to in home IV infusions... somethings terribly wrong with that picture.The nurse practioner says his medical reports show hes healthy & then in her next breath shes hooking him up to vitamin IV infusion & giving him B12 shots. Maybe she just wants to make money so she hooking him up. Healthy people dont need in home IV infusions.
Apart for healthy or not this is a holistic treatment.

Even traditional medicine works with vitamins intake. I once complained to my doctor (not a holistic doctor) that I was really tired every day. He asked for a complete physical exam, all sort of tests at the end nothing was wrong, all came out really good. He prescribed a series of vitamins during a period of time, because I was really really tired.

I think I have to take them again, really tired lately

However, in holistic treatments cocktails of vitamins some time are used to treat skin disorders, fatigue and even more serious issues. I posted once about a holistic clinic who even treats cancer patients using IV infusions.

But the question still remains, if Michael (I think he never did) was not asking for propofol on April 19, why Murray was buying? "intent to murder just kidding...
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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 5:23 pm

posted by MaryJo October 25th 2011

Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Tuesday, October 25th 2011 @ 9:29 AM

But in reality a healthy person isn't hooked up to in home IV infusions... somethings terribly wrong with that picture.The nurse practioner says his medical reports show hes healthy & then in her next breath shes hooking him up to vitamin IV infusion & giving him B12 shots. Maybe she just wants to make money so she hooking him up. Healthy people dont need in home IV infusions.
Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Tuesday, October 25th 2011 @ 9:29 AM

Apart for healthy or not this is a holistic treatment.
Even traditional medicine works with vitamins intake. I once complained to my doctor (not a holistic doctor) that I was really tired every day. He asked for a complete physical exam, all sort of tests at the end nothing was wrong, all came out really good. He prescribed a series of vitamins during a period of time, because I was really really tired.
I understand traditional meds.

Daily I take 5 separate vitamin supplements plus medication to manage my high blood pressure & high cholesterol ....& under Dr care.

I'm NOT using in home IV infusions.



It still doesnt make sense. Why...IF MJ is healthy...is he using in home IV infusions???
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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 5:26 pm

posted by Nimue October 25th 2011

Here is one example of this type of treatment:

Conditions addressed with IV Nutrition

IV Nutrition (also known as parenteral IV therapy) benefits a wide variety of conditions, including:

   Cancer
   Parkinson's disease
   Migraines & tension headaches
   Macular degeneration
   Fibromyalgia
   Depression
   Chronic fatigue
   Chronic disease
   Allergies
   Detoxification
   Asthma
   Chronic or acute muscle spasms
   Acute viral illnesses and colds

A proactive investment in overall health

Vitamin Infusion Therapy can be used to effectively correct deficiencies, enhance immune function, increase energy and assist in maintaining health. IV nutrition is also often used to support people with chronic or severe illness, digestive disorders, those undergoing chemotherapy or radiation as well as those suffering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. However, more and more clients are seeking Vitamin IVs as a proactive investment in their overall health.
Vitamin IV for beautification and athletic performance

Vitamin IVs deliver a high dose of powerful antioxidants into the bloodstream and, as a result, have shown to significantly improve the appearance of skin, hair and nails. Many clients quickly notice the reduction of fine lines and wrinkles, a glowing complexion, strong, healthy nails and lustrous hair. Of course, the anti-aging benefits of Vitamin Infusion Therapy extend far beyond appearance, right down to the cellular level. Increased energy, improved mood and reduced stress levels are other benefits that clients often notice.

Elite athletes have also adopted Vitamin Infusion Therapy to quicken the recovery phase in training and competition. It can also be used to promote weight loss and boost the immune system against the common cold and flu.


http://www.thedempsterclinic.com/vitamin-iv.html

Here is Cherilyn Lee clinic:

Customized Vitamin (Antioxidants) IV Treatments



Nutri-Med Integrated Health Care offers Customized Nutritional Therapy to support the following conditions.

AIDS/HIV
Chemical Dependency (using Amino Acids)
Bacterial Infection
Bird Flu Virus
Brain Cancer
Breast Cancer
Burkett’s Lymphoma
Cardiovascular Disease
Cervical Cancer
Chlamydia pneumoniae
CMV(Cytomegalovirus)
Colon Cancer
Coxsackieviruses
Diabetes
Diptheria
Epstein Barr Virus
FM-CFS (Fibromyalgia-Chronic Fatigue Syndrome)
Sarcoma Cancer
Squamous Cell Cancer
Tuberculosis
Viral Flu
West Nile Virus



Herpes Simplex
HPV (Human
Parvovirus)
Influenza
Leukemia’s (AML, CML, CLL)
Liver Involvement or
Liver Cancers
Lung Cancer
Lupus
Lymes Disease
Melanoma Cancer and
Malignant Melanoma
Multiple Myeloma
MS (Multiple Sclerosis)
Mycoplasma
Fermantans
Mycoplasma pneumoniae
Ovarian Cancer
Pancreatic Cancer
Parkinson’s Disease
Prostate Cancer
Renal Cell Cancer


http://www.nutrimedhealthcare.com/html/nmvitac.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 5:31 pm

posted by The Fairy October 25th 2011

TRIAL

Witness statements

-Cherilyn Lee (Practitioner nurse)

CNN comments to Cherilyn Lees testimony Tuesday is added in 2nd post on this thread and the two vids for Tuesday are added to Nimues 1st post on this thread
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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 5:33 pm

posted by Nimue October 26th 2011

Something odd.. from the Cherilyn interview to CNN on Jun 30 2009, 5 days after the event:

Cherilyn Lee: I don't know. I didn't see anybody. I didn't see anybody in January. February, March, there was a time he did go to London, so -he was out. But I never heard of a doctor, I never did see anyone.

Campbell: all right.

Cherilyn Lee: I told him I prefer to do continuity of care with someone. And I didn't see anyone


I am not sure what she is talking about, but she says January, February and March, and now more then 2 years from the event April is added to the months she saw Michael.

Another problem with timeline?

The timeline from CNN time would make more sense than the one in court.

The one in court until April 19 2009 "Michael" had not asked about propofol and Murray was already buying it since April 06.

Other thing that is odd. On Jun 21st, Michael allegeded asked to call her to say the one part of his body was cold and other was hot. However, at this time Michael had a doctor who he was paying 150.000 dollars a month. Also, alleged this doctor was giving him propofol.

And then Michael decided to call a nurse that he met only in January, February, March and April and didn't know anything about propofol to ask for advise rather than a doctor which alleged he knew since 2006 and was paying 150.000 dollars a month???


Unless this call to Cherilyn was to set up the hoax, it does not make sense at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   4th October 2013, 5:34 pm

posted by The Fairy October 28th 2011

CNN:
Nurse: There's a 'virus' in the courtroom

She may have been testifying for the defense, but it doesn't look Cherilyn Lee thinks too highly of Dr. Conrad Murray. Lee was Michael Jackson's former nurse practitioner and she stopped to talk to the media outside of the courthouse after testifying Tuesday.

A cameraman asked her how she was feeling (trial had to stop down for a several minutes because she said she was feeling dizzy on the witness stand).

"It was just hard being in a room with… It was like a virus in there," Lee said.

The cameraman then started to ask her about the horrendous traffic that morning, which caused her to rush in to court.

"No, I don’t mean that kind of virus… but I won’t go any further."
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PostSubject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger   

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