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Nimue

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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 4:40 pm

posted by Nimue on Saturday, October 22nd 2011

Quote :
Quote from mjmtc on Saturday, October 22nd 2011 @ 4:52 AM

The Fairy wrote:
Dr White should know better than to display bad manners like this and so far he has both made the judge react because he allegedly passed notes to the Defense attorneys and apparently said those words about dr Shafer. I think the judge could hold him in contempt of court if he wanted to. I dont know if that would still allow him to testify.
Quote from mjmtc on Saturday, October 22nd 2011 @ 4:52 AM
Earlier Friday I posted this.. seems like the judge is reading Flying Fairies... just joking, but a funny coincidence
Yeah.. when I read the articles I thought about what you have said, funny coincidences indeed.

Maybe the judge palying with the mouse is because he lost some of our convo at the chatroom hehehehehe

Another thing called my attention:

He said he told Walgren it was "inappropriate to tamper with evidence found at the scene."

It took me back in time to Michael's trial, another coincidence I guess.

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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 4:43 pm

posted by Nimue on Saturday, October 22nd 2011

NPG again:

Dr. Conrad Murray
"I'm Praying for the Prosecutor"


video at the link

Dr. Conrad Murray made a pretty shocking statement last night, leaving a restaurant in Santa Monica. He said, "I would like to pray for the prosecutor, his associates, and his expert witness."

Sadly, the photog didn't ask why Murray was praying for them ... whether it's because he prays for everyone, be they friend or foe -- or whether he's praying because he believes they are portraying him unfairly/unethically before the jury.


http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/21/dr-conrad-murray-praying-for-prosecutor-jury-michael-jackson/#.TqL66nKaDh4

Murray's girlfriend looks really mad.

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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 5:04 pm

posted by mjmtc on Sunday, October 23rd 2011

Conrad Murray's words may seal his fate

Whether he lied or told police the truth, Michael Jackson's physician is guilty, prosecutors say.
Conrad Murray trial

Code:
Dr. Conrad Murray, with defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan, left, listens in court Friday. Legal experts said the prosecution’s case has left the defense with a big damage-control job. (Reed Saxon / Pool photo / October 21, 2011)
By Harriet Ryan and Victoria Kim, Los Angeles Times

October 22, 2011


The prosecution's case against Michael Jackson's personal physician might be summarized this way: He lied about everything, but even if he told the truth, he's still guilty.

During a four-week case that rounded toward a conclusion Friday, prosecutors suggested that Dr. Conrad Murray's own words created a Catch-22 in which conviction was the only outcome possible. His statement to police, if taken by jurors at face value, contained enough admissions of gross negligence to amount to a manslaughter confession, prosecutors said.

And if jurors decided he lied to police, as numerous scientific experts and others said he must have, his true conduct was even more egregiously criminal, they argued.


The simultaneous use and debunking of Murray's own words sets up an enormous challenge for his defense, which will began its case next week.

His lawyers have not announced whether the doctor will take the stand in his own defense. But some legal experts said that would be a significant risk.

"There is just so much out there now, from his statement and these experts, and for him to get up there, I just think the prosecution would have a field day," said J. Christopher Smith, a Los Angeles criminal defense attorney who has followed the case closely.


Initially, Murray's attorneys planned to delve into Jackson's history of abusing propofol and other drugs and the financial pressures on him at the time he died. These two elements, the defense had said, explained why the singer might give himself the anesthetic propofol in a desperate attempt to sleep before critical rehearsals.

But Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor barred most testimony pertaining to those areas as irrelevant and prejudicial.

So the defense case instead will focus on witnesses who are expected to challenge the prosecution's contention that Murray's treatment of Jackson amounted to criminal conduct. They will also present character witnesses likely to offer testimonials about the doctor's charitable works and caring manner.

Legal experts said the prosecution's case has left the defense with a big damage-control job.

"They've got the defense in a trick bag," Smith said. "Whichever way they go, it seems like the prosecution is going to have a comeback."

The falsehoods and ineptitude, as recounted from the witness stand, began months before Jackson's death when Murray assured an insurance company the singer was in perfect health. It culminated in his interview with homicide detectives. An audio recording of that 2 1/2-hour interview was played for jurors and became an initial basis for three prosecution medical experts to call Murray clearly responsible for his patient's death.

"It's like leaving a baby that's sleeping on your kitchen countertop," one expert, cardiologist Alon Steinberg, said of Murray's account to police that he left Jackson alone after injecting him with propofol.

Steinberg and two other physician experts found medical incompetence in nearly every part of Murray's narrative. He failed at even the most basic aspects of care, they said. His attempt to perform CPR when Jackson still had a pulse goes against basic medical training, the experts said.

The witnesses also attacked Murray's account of how Jackson died. Dr. Steven Shafer, an anesthesiologist, said that almost nothing about the quantity of drugs Murray said he administered matched up with what was later found in Jackson's blood. Of the physician's claim that he gave Jackson just two small injections of the sedative lorazepam, Shafer said, "This did not happen."

He was also dismissive of Murray's account of injecting Jackson with a 25-milligram dose of propofol more than an hour before his death. Shafer said blood levels showed the dose was probably 40 times larger and given by an intravenous drip. The only way to explain the massive amount of propofol in Jackson's body, Shafer said, was that Murray left the drug running into Jackson's veins after his heart stopped.

He also called "crazy" the defense's main contention: that Jackson injected himself with a lethal combination of lorazepam and propofol. Even when Shafer appeared to throw the defense a bone — acknowledging Friday that it was possible Jackson had triggered the fatal flow of propofol by knocking a clamp off an intravenous line — he maintained Murray was at fault for abandoning his patient.

Defense attorneys have already abandoned one scenario they had previously argued: that the pop star drank the propofol that killed him, prompting a prosecutor to complain that their case was "ever-changing."

The Murray defense team plans to call two experts: a toxicologist and Dr. Paul White, an anesthesiologist who has researched propofol. Those experts could argue that Murray's care of Jackson was unorthodox but not criminal. The charge of involuntary manslaughter requires prosecutors to show that Murray caused Jackson's death by committing a crime "not amounting to a felony" or while acting "without due caution and circumspection."

Defense experts could tell jurors that off-label uses of drugs are common and in many cases help patients, said Joseph Low IV, a Long Beach criminal lawyer who previously worked on Murray's defense.

"Just because he used propofol differently than its original use doesn't make it … manslaughter," Low said.

He said that defense experts might tell jurors that the hard-and-fast rules prosecution witnesses have accused him of violating — providing propofol in a household setting, for example — are more nuanced.

"Standard of care is a matter of opinion based on who you put on the stand," Low said.


The character witnesses include an 82-year-old woman who knows Murray's work at a Houston charity clinic. The defense is expected to use their testimony to counter the portrayal of Murray as primarily concerned with collecting his $150,000-a-month salary.

"It humanizes him," said veteran criminal defense attorney Roger Rosen. "Jurors are still human beings at the end of the day, and I think that even though they are instructed not to be guided by sympathy, let's face it: That does enter into it."


My comment: Very convenient that Lowe can talk about the trial because he is no longer on Murray's defense team. But in reality he is just saying the words Ed and Flanagan are not allowed to say.. smart trick
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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 5:06 pm

posted by Nimue on Sunday, October 23rd 2011

Dave point of view about the audio record:

Video deleted/removed
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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 5:06 pm

posted by ElkeHassell on Sunday, October 23rd 2011

I thought that David has now made it clear that he is no longer a beLIEver. I have a copy of an email he send to my friend that clearly states that he is now convinced that MJ is dead, and has abandoned all of his initial doubts on all the contradictions. So there we have it. Since he saw the pic of MJ aparently, he has changed his mind completely and is totally convinced that MJ is dead.
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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 5:07 pm

posted by MaryJo on Sunday, October 23rd 2011

Start listening @ 2:04 to hear what Dave said he heard...chirps, curtain, some machine & murray talking..wear headphones.



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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 5:08 pm

posted by mjmtc on Sunday, October 23rd 2011

Quote :
Quote from ElkeHassell on Sunday, October 23rd 2011 @ 5:31 PM

I thought that David has now made it clear that he is no longer a beLIEver. I have a copy of an email he send to my friend that clearly states that he is now convinced that MJ is dead, and has abandoned all of his initial doubts on all the contradictions. So there we have it. Since he saw the pic of MJ aparently, he has changed his mind completely and is totally convinced that MJ is dead.
As long as I have known Dave and talked with him, he has been 50/50 on the believer issue. A lot of people go back and forth like that. He also has had a lot of harrassment.

Anyway there are still people who notice odd things who are not believers, so we get our info from various sources. Interesting observations he did for sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 5:10 pm

posted by ElkeHassell on Sunday, October 23rd 2011

http://www.janetjackson.com/story/news/janet-jackson-returns-to-us-to-support-her-family

She has been made to cancel any further concerts in Australia and is to return immediately as per her family's request

Quote :
Quote from mjmtc on Sunday, October 23rd 2011 @ 9:41 PM

As long as I have known Dave and talked with him, he has been 50/50 on the believer issue. A lot of people go back and forth like that. He also has had a lot of harrassment.

Anyway there are still people who notice odd things who are not believers, so we get our info from various sources. Interesting observations he did for sure.


Jeezzzz, you got to really have ears like a "Pixie or Fairy" to hear those noises he is talking about. I have to admit when I listened to it first, to me it sounded like somebody is turning a leave or page from a note pad or something. I hear a bleeping noise but is that enough evidence for it to be in a hospital? I do not hear the squishing noise that sneakers leave behind on a floor. Its difficult to say, then again I have no headphones to really listen to it and must get some. Have you listened to it with headphones Fairy or Nimue?
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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 5:15 pm

posted by mjmtc on Monday, October 24th 2011

Quote :
Quote from ElkeHassell on Sunday, October 23rd 2011 @ 10:26 PM

Jeezzzz, you got to really have ears like a "Pixie or Fairy" to hear those noises he is talking about. I have to admit when I listened to it first, to me it sounded like somebody is turning a leave or page from a note pad or something. I hear a bleeping noise but is that enough evidence for it to be in a hospital? I do not hear the squishing noise that sneakers leave behind on a floor. Its difficult to say, then again I have no headphones to really listen to it and must get some. Have you listened to it with headphones Fairy or Nimue?
Well it is interesting. I do hear the sound of the sneaker and a lot of background noise. Also like you said Elke like someone turning a page. It sounds like someone reading from a script or prewritten paper. Hardly what a patient high on drugs would do. In the beginning I thought it might be a paper being turned in the courtroom but second time round its the same sound again. Now if we had only heard this recording played once, we might indeed have thought these sounds came from the courtroom and not from the recorded message. But David Walgren makes sure to play it once more.. as he says..

"May I play that again I dont think we had sufficient volume?"

Im gonna play that recording again now that the volume has been turned up to an appropriate level"


The transcript written on the screen is not accurate. Its not "When people leave this show", but "When people leave that show"

Anyway here is the transcript with the noises that I hear: paper being turned, shoe on floor, rustling of clothes.

Also note that in the first time the audio is being played you hear someone say "okay" (could be Murray) but the second time its played, noone is saying "okay"... maybe one of the reasons David wanted us to hear it twice.. so the question is if at all it is the same recording....!

Transcript with times of background noises...

"We have to be phenomenal. When people leave this (that) show,

(okay 2:13)

when people leave my show, I want I want them to say Ive never seen nothing like this in my life. Go Go Ive never seen nothing like this. Go. Its its amazing. He is the greatest entertainer in the world (paper)

Im taking that money (shoe)

a million children children's hospital (rustling)

the biggest in the world Michael Jackson's Children's hospital


So we can conclude that there so far are two different recordings or that the second recording has been edited, so that you dont hear the person saying "okay".

Later in this trial we hear the full recording, except this time there is another background sound which wasnt there before... the chattering sound like that of a helicopter. Some may argue that this is just the background noise of the recording, but then why isnt the chattering sound there on the two first recording we heard?

As the third recording is longer we will hear noise in the background like that of TV like Dave said in his vid.

So why are there three different recordings with and without the "okay", with and without the background chattering sound and why do we hear the sneaker, the paper and the rustling of clothes.

Furthermore as Nimue pointed out, why does Michaels voice sound closer than that of Murray if this is recorded from Murrays phone?

And why havent they found Michaels phone to match the recordings?


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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 5:16 pm

posted by Nimue on Monday, October 24th 2011

Yeah.. we have noticed the background noise before, the beep sound, the rustling and the "helicopter" sound. Dave made the assumption these sounds are from some kind of hospital equipament, but this are his assumptions, could be anything.

What is odd is to hear these sounds in quiet night hours. Also Michael's voice is clear then Murray's voice and should be the other way around if it is a phone call.

The record is supposed to show someone drugged, so this person on drugs, looks for a small cell phone, dial Murray's number in the middle of the night, keeps holding the phone for a long time to make the speech, without even dropping the phone a few times under "drugged state" and his voice is louder than the person recording the call as well the background noise.

If Michael was in a room with so much noise, no wonder he couldn't get any sleep.

PS: At first I took the rustling as the movement of bed sheets, but it is too loud, unless the recording device was in the bed.
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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 5:18 pm

posted by The Fairy on Monday, October 24th 2011

Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Monday, October 24th 2011 @ 2:17 AM

Yeah.. we have noticed the background noise before, the beep sound, the rustling and the "helicopter" sound. Dave made the assumption these sounds are from some kind of hospital equipament, but this are his assumptions, could be anything.
It is not only the background noises in themselves which are interesting, but also the fact that the third time the recording is played in court, there are suddenly the "helicopter-or whatever" noises. When the recording is played in court the first and the second time these noises arent there.

The "okay" is there the first time the recording is played in court, but not in the second.

When the same recording is played three times for us in court, it should be the exact same things we hear.

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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 5:23 pm

posted by Nimue on Tuesday, October 25th 2011

Michael Jackson shopped for sleep in last months, witnesses say

My comment: nothing like that was said in the court. So far the doctor and nurse said they were called most because Michael's children and some of his health issues.

Los Angeles (CNN) -- A nurse who says Michael Jackson asked her to give him propofol to help him sleep returns to the witness stand Tuesday morning for the second day of Dr. Conrad Murray's defense presentation.

My comment: Cherilyn said this to the media not in court yet and they are already talking about.

Cherilyn Lee, who first treated Jackson with IV drips loaded with vitamins, is expected to describe how two months before the pop icon's death, she warned him it wouldn't be safe to give him anesthesia in his home.

A Los Angeles doctor testified for the defense Monday that Jackson asked him for "intravenous sleep medicine" the same weekend he made the request from Lee.


My comment: 2 different situation treated as only one thing...

Jackson's meetings with the doctor and nurse came after Murray had already placed his first order for propofol supplies that he soon started administering to Jackson on a nightly basis leading up to his death two months later.

My comment: This part no one is looking at. If Murray was already purchasing propofol why would Michael "shop" for another doctor or nurse?

Prosecutors rested their case in Murray's involuntary manslaughter trial Monday morning after 33 witnesses testified over 16 days.

Testimony could end this week after the defense calls about 10 more witnesses, including the head of the company that promoted Jackson's comeback concerts, several Murray heart patients and a defense anesthesiology expert.

A major part of Murray's defense strategy is to convince jurors that Jackson was responsible for his own death through his aggressive search for propofol, the surgical anesthetic the coroner ruled killed him.

The prosecution contends Murray's reckless use of propofol in Jackson's bedroom, without proper precautions, made him criminally responsible for his June 25, 2009 death.

Dr. Allan Metzger, who treated Jackson off and on for two decades for "his profound sleep disorder," testified as a defense witness Monday that Jackson called him to his home on April 18, 2009, to ask for help.


My comment: Metzger never said that. He said Michael has infrequent sleep problems.

Jackson asked for "intravenous sleep medicine," but he did not specifically name a drug, Metzger testified Monday. "I think he used the word juice," he said.

Jackson wanted the anesthetic delivered by IV because "he did not believe any oral medicine would be helpful," Metzger said.

Metzger declined Jackson's request, instead giving him prescriptions for two oral sedatives to help him sleep.

Deputy District Attorney David Walgren used the defense witness to make the prosecution's point that using propofol outside a clinical setting is unacceptable.

"Is there any amount of money that would have convinced you to give him intravenous propofol in his house?" Walgren asked Metzger.

"Absolutely not," Metzger answered.

The defense then called Lee, a nurse who practices nutrition and natural remedies. Lee worked with Jackson to help his fatigue and insomnia from February through April of 2009, she said.

After two months of using IV infusions of vitamins, "sophisticated" vitamin smoothies and bedtime teas, Jackson began asking for more help, Lee testified.

"His complaint was 'I have a problem sleeping and all the natural remedies and everything you're doing is not working,'" she said. "When I need sleep, I need to go to sleep right away."

The court session ended before defense lawyer Ed Chernoff could ask Lee to describe what kind of help Jackson was asking for, but the nurse previously told CNN that he requested propofol.

"I told him this medication is not safe," Lee told CNN on June 30, 2009. "He said, 'I just want to get some sleep. You don't understand. I just want to be able to be knocked out and go to sleep.'"

Four police officers were also called as defense witnesses Monday morning, but their testimonies were brief.

A Beverly Hills police officer testified that a 911 call routed through her department at 12:20 p.m. on June 25, 2009, asked for help at Jackson's Holmby Hills estate.

A Los Angeles police officer testified next about retrieving seven minutes of video from a security camera at Jackson's home. The video, shown to the jury, captured Jackson's arrival home from his last rehearsal just before 1 a.m. on the morning he died.

Michael Jackson fans sitting in court appeared to become emotional as they viewed the last video ever recorded of the pop icon alive, grainy security camera video of Jackson arriving home from his last rehearsal.

Two LAPD investigators were called to the stand by the defense Monday and testified briefly.

Randy Phillips, the head of AEG Live, is expected to be called by the defense this week.

Murray's lawyers have argued that Jackson was pressured by Phillips, whose company was promoting his comeback concerts in London, to show up healthy and on time for rehearsals or else the tour might be canceled.

Murray, in a police interview, said he was using sedatives to wean Jackson from propofol, which he had used almost every night for two months to fight his insomnia. But after a long, restless night and morning, the lorazepam and midazolam had no effect, Murray said.

"I've got to sleep, Dr. Conrad," Murray said Jackson pleaded to him. "I have these rehearsals to perform. I must be ready for the show in England. Tomorrow, I will have to cancel my performance, because you know I cannot function if I don't get to sleep."

Murray said he gave in to Jackson's pleas and gave him an injection of 25 milligrams of propofol around 10:40 a.m.

The testimony of anesthesiologist expert Dr. Steven Shafer, concluded Monday morning, 11 days after he took the stand as the prosecution's 33rd, but perhaps most important, witness.

Shafer testified last week that there was no way Jackson got only the amount of propofol Murray said he did, based on the high level of the drug found in blood taken during his autopsy.

The "only scenario" to explain Jackson's death was that he overdosed on propofol infused through an IV drip set up by Murray, Shafer said.

The defense contends Jackson self-administered the fatal dose, along with sedatives, without Murray knowing.


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/25/justice/california-conrad-murray-trial/


Now some tabloids drama:

Dr.ConradMurray'sDefenseTeamImplodes!

As Dr. Conrad Murray's defense is about to present its case in the Michael Jackson death trial, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned that the embattled cardiologist's lawyers are fighting with each other!

Ed Chernoff, Dr. Murray's lead attorney, is from Houston, Texas, and had been staying with another member of the defense team, Michael Flanagan, to save his client money. But he moved out from Flanagan's posh digs in San Marino, a week and a half ago.


My comment: MONEY? what money?

"Ed didn't like the way Michael was handling the prosecution witnesses. Ed felt that Michael was too abrasive and caustic with his questioning, and that Michael allowed witnesses to clarify points that only helped the prosecution's case. Things were getting very tense, and he's moved into a hotel in Santa Monica," a source close to Dr. Murray tells RadarOnline.com exclusively.

My comment: Sounds funny when they call Flanagan "Michael".

Courtroom onlookers were stunned when Chernoff decided that he was going to be handling the questioning of the DA's Propofol witness, Dr. Steven Shafer.

"Flanagan had prepared for approximately four months to cross examine Dr. Shafer," the insider tells RadarOnline.com. "Michael was thoroughly prepared, and ready to attempt to poke holes into what Dr. Shafer had already told the jury on direct examination.

"When Ed told Michael that he would be handling Dr. Shafer, he felt like the rug was pulled out from under him. There is nothing Michael can do about it because Ed is the lead attorney. Michael was specifically brought on board to handle the medical aspects of the case, along with the witnesses. Ed and Michael are barely talking to each other right now. Michael has essentially been frozen out for the time being."


My comment: This sentence sounds odd... Michael has been frozen for the time being...

As RadarOnline.com previously reported, Judge Michael Pastor ordered Dr. White to appear on November 16, 2011 to determine if he was in contempt of court for calling Deputy District Attorney David Walgren a "scumbag" during a TV interview.

"Chernoff was LIVID that Dr. White made those comments to the press, but his entire case essentially rests with him. Flanagan is still under the assumption that he will be handling questioning of Dr. White, but Ed could very likely commandeer the questioning of him also. Nareg Gourjian, the third lawyer on the team, is just keeping his head down, and staying out of the drama. Nareg will question several of the defense witnesses," the source states.

Looming over the trial is PETA's request that a federal investigation be launched after RadarOnline.com reported that the defense had commissioned a study in which Propofol was given to Beagle dogs. Ed Chernoff revealed in court on Friday, that Dr. Paul White had done the testing.

PETA (the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals organization) filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) last Monday alleging "cruel drug toxicity tests on beagles commissioned by the defense team of Dr. Conrad Murray, the physician now on trial for his alleged role in Michael Jackson's death.

“PETA asserts that if attorneys from Flanagan, Unger, Grover & McCool did commission the tests for the drug Propofol - the toxic effects of which have been extensively studied in dogs and humans - those tests were likely conducted in violation of the federal Animal Welfare Act's prohibition against tests on animals that duplicate previous experiments. PETA has filed a complaint with the State Bar of California as well."

The prosecution's final witness, Dr. Steven Shafer, is expected to finish his testimony Monday morning and will then be cross-examined by Chernoff.

It's anticipated that the defense will call approximately 15 witnesses, and could rest their case by this Friday.


http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/10/conrad-murray-defense-team-implodes?mid=50
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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 6:03 pm

posted by The Fairy on Tuesday, October 25th 2011

October 24, 2011
Your guide to the defense's case
Posted: 04:42 PM ET



The defense case will be much quicker than the state's case. It took prosecutors 16 days, they called 33 witnesses and they displayed or marked more than 200 exhibits. In contrast, the defense is expected to take just a few days and finish presenting its case Thursday.

Lead defense attorney Ed Chernoff advised the court last week that they expect to call a third expert in addition to anesthesiologist Dr. Paul White and toxicologist Michael Hanson. While Chernoff did not say who his third expert would be, Dr. Stephen Pustilnik is on the witness list. He's a medical examiner from Texas and could contradict some of the testimony given by the Los Angeles county medical examiner who conducted Micheal Jackson's autopsy.

Here is a list of possible witnesses for the defense's case:

-Dona Norris, Evidence Manager for Beverly Hills Police Department

- Alex Supall, a police surveillance specialist with the LAPD

-Randy Phillips, President of AEG

-Dr. Paul White, Anesthesiologist

-Michael Hanson, Toxicologist – Analyzed Jackson's stomach contents

-LAPD detectives Orlando Martinez and Dan Myers

-Amir Dan Rubin, former Chief Operating Office of UCLA Medical Center

-Dr. Stephen Pustilnik

-4 character witnesses



http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/24/your-guide-to-the-defenses-case/#more-14285


Gurgle1624 only uploaded the audio from the beginning of the trial yesterday, unfortunately that included Ed getting all agitated and the surveillance footage.. so I have only added the audio in the respective witness testimonies.

Once I find the vids elsewhere I will post them here.

Regarding the testimonies, TMZ didnt write much about most of yesterdays witnesses, so I have added some articles from CNN.

In Cherilyn Lees testimony I added her interview with CNN June 2009.

Everything about the witness testimonies and the trial vids is in:

"Hearing, Trial and Contradictions...."

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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 6:05 pm

posted by Nimue on Wednesday, October 26th 2011


Defense of Michael Jackson’s doctor to shift to doctor’s positive traits as case winds down

LOS ANGELES — After weeks of hearing prosecutors and witnesses cast the physician charged in Michael Jackson’s death as a bad doctor, defense attorneys will shift the case to some of Dr. Conrad Murray’s positive traits as the case nears its close.

Murray’s defense team plans to call up to five character witnesses Wednesday who will likely speak about the Houston-based cardiologist’s care and life-saving abilities. The attorneys did not name the witnesses, but they are expected to be Murray’s patients.

The flurry of character witnesses come as defense attorneys wind down their case. They told a judge Tuesday that after the character witnesses, they will only call two experts to try to counter prosecution experts who said Murray acted recklessly by giving Jackson the anesthetic propofol as a sleep aid.

Defense attorneys could rest their case Thursday. They have already called nine witnesses, including a doctor and nurse practitioner who treated Jackson but refused his requests to help him obtain either an intravenous sleep aid or propofol.

His attorneys contend Jackson was desperate for sleep and gave himself the fatal dose of propofol when his doctor left the room. They attempted to argue that Jackson would have been indebted to concert promoter AEG Live for nearly $40 million if his shows were canceled, but a judge blocked any mention of the figure to the jury Tuesday.

Instead, jurors heard from two witnesses who knew Jackson and described their interactions with the singer in the months before his death.

Lee, at times tearful, said she initially didn’t know about the drug. But after asking a doctor about it and reading a reference guide, Lee said she tried to convince Jackson it was too dangerous to use in his bedroom.

“He told me that doctors have told him it was safe,” Lee testified of Jackson’s request for the anesthetic. “I said no doctor is going to do this in your house.”

By Murray’s own admission, he left Jackson’s bedside on the morning of his death. When he returned, Jackson was unresponsive, according to his interview with police two days after Jackson’s death on June 25, 2009.

The physician said he only left Jackson’s bedside for two minutes, although his own attorneys have suggested it might have been longer. Phone records show Murray made or received several calls in the hour before Murray summoned help.

Lee acknowledged that she told detectives that she had told Jackson, “No one who cared or had your best interest at heart would give you this.”


more at:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/defense-of-michael-jacksons-doctor-to-shift-to-doctors-positive-traits-as-case-winds-down/2011/10/26/gIQAbD51HM_story.html
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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 6:09 pm

posted by ElkeHassell on Wednesday, October 26th 2011

Erin Jacobs
Here is a link to the the interview with the former LADA who worked for DA's office for 11 years. He was involved in notifying the Jackson's about the Involuntary Manslaughter charge. Please listen 4 mins. into the interview. Where he discusses the bias against Michael Jackson. Get the puke bucket!

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/conrad-murray-lindsay-lohan-not-serious-felony-hamid-towfigh

What Do Lindsay Lohan And Conrad Murray Have In Common? |

By Jen Heger - Radar Legal Editor
IMPORTANT UPDATE!!

Via Erin Jacobs, a couple of minutes ago - please share this!!!

"I might be sharing too much but I don't care. I found out that Cooley thought Michael bought his way out of 1993 situation. Cooley never wanted Murray charged, walgren fought him tooth and nail for murder 2 and Cooley wouldn't budge. He allowed his personal feeling to get in the way."


Erin Jacobs
In this video they talk about Cooley's relationship with defense attorney's
http://wn.com/Is_LA_District_Attorney_Steve_Cooley_Corrupt?_Two_Views


Is La District Attorney Steve Cooley Corrupt
wn.com
Is La District Attorney Steve Cooley Corrupt on WN Network delivers the latest Videos and Editable pages for News & Events, including Entertainment, Music, Sports, Science and more, Sign up and share your playlists.


"The facts against Murray, arguably, establish an awareness of the risk of life and a conscious disregard for that life. The evidence, thus far, has shown myriad errors by Murray. Experts have opined that administering the anesthetic propofol to treat insomnia at home, without appropriate ventilation and emergency equipment on hand, then leaving Jackson’s side for several minutes, was “inconceivable and unconscionable.”

should this be involountary manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.



Should Conrad Murray be on trial for murder?
insession.blogs.cnn.com
Commentary by Beth Karas, In Session Correspondent on TruTV/HLN Many have questioned why Dr. Conrad Murray is not facing a second degree murder charge. The decision to pursue the lesser homicide, involuntary manslaughter, was made by the Los Angeles County District Attorney, Steve Cooley.



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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 6:12 pm

posted by Nimue on Wednesday, October 26th 2011

Thanks Elke. Here is one of the videos:



When they are talking about his friends at the Church that are pedophiles and he refused to press charges kind of remind me of Murray saying: "I will pray for the prosecutors".

La Toya's comments about the trial


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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 6:13 pm

posted by ElkeHassell on Wednesday, October 26th 2011

Nimue wrote:
When they are talking about his friends at the Church that are pedophiles and he refused to press charges kind of remind me of Murray saying: "I will pray for the prosecutors".
That would make perfect sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 6:14 pm

posted by Nimue on Wednesday, October 26th 2011

Anthony McCartney
For those asking about Karen Faye as a possible witness, apparently defense couldn't find her to serve a subpoena. #murraytrial

Anthony McCartney

The announcement about Faye's unavailability came during a morning session outside presence of the jury, so I didn't hear about it 'til late

Anthony McCartney

It's up to defense to find her. MT @MsChivy4Justice: Any chance the judge will issue a warrant to force Faye to appear in court?

OnlyHereForMJ

@mccartneyAP Any chance the judge will issue a warrant to force @wingheart to appear in court?

Anthony McCartney

.@MsChivy4Justice If she doesn't appear after receiving a subpoena, then that would be a different story.

DJ-Fitz

@MsChivy4Justice@mccartneyAP@wingheart WAIT? KAREN FAYE IS REFUSING TO APPEAR IN COURT? WHAT???

Anthony McCartney

.@dallasjenfitz Defense said they couldn't serve her a subpoena, not that she's refusing. No longer an expected witness.

Maybe they can find her backstage taking care of the make-up for the jurors.

Anthony McCartney

I also should note -- after judge dismissed the jury today, he walked Murray through his right to testify, or not testify. (cont)

Anthony McCartney

Judge Pastor told Murray that it was his decision alone if he wanted to testify or not.

Anthony McCartney

Judge said he was telling Murray this because defense is winding down, and he will ask him whether he wants to testify after defense rests.


http://twitter.com/#!/mccartneyAP

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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 6:17 pm

posted by ElkeHassell on Wednesday, October 26th 2011 @ 4:40 PM

I also should note -- after judge dismissed the jury today, he walked Murray through his right to testify, or not testify. (cont)

Quote :
Anthony McCartney

Judge Pastor told Murray that it was his decision alone if he wanted to testify or not.

Anthony McCartney

Judge said he was telling Murray this because defense is winding down, and he will ask him whether he wants to testify after defense rests.
Will he do it???? What are the odds??? You know after reading the articles about the corrupt DA office chief, I feel Murray really has nothing to worry about. Its a crime comparable with grand theft and drug posession punished by fines or imprisonment, well from what we see with Lohan, so far she escaped the prison sentence, even doing stupidness in between and breaching the terms constantly, so Murray, well behaved that he is, is going to just receive a slap on the wrist, probably as planned, but ohhhhh the outrage I dread to hear it.


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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 6:18 pm

posted by GailShaw on Thursday, October 27th 2011

Thank-you for the updates.I am having trouble keeping up with all this now,so its great to come here and read all your information,links and videos.

The links to the videos on the corruption of Steve Cooley is just beyond belief.....Is he still the DA,or did he get defeated?

I was just looking at the updates on HLN Insessions Blog.....a very funny moment took place with one of Conrad Murrays witnesses.....I wasn't awake to see it.Did any of you guys see it?

Anyway its got these guys talking,and there is even a mention to Michaels 2005 case.

Also on the same link there is a video of Cherilyn Lee talking to the media after her testimony.....is this allowed?Also note how they say a few times....She Loved Michael and still does......She also mentions it was like a ''virus in there'.....I wonder who the guy with the camera was.......he was really in her face........

Well here is the link.....

http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/

Cheers
I just can''t get over a witness being allowed to get near the defendant,let alone kiss him!!!...Is this for real.....and the smile on Conrads face......WOW.
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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   9th October 2013, 6:22 pm

posted by Nimue on Thursday, October 27th 2011

Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Thursday, October 27th 2011 @ 3:46 AM

Thank-you for the updates.I am having trouble keeping up with all this now,so its great to come here and read all your information,links and videos.

The links to the videos on the corruption of Steve Cooley is just beyond belief.....Is he still the DA,or did he get defeated?
Yes, Steve Cooley is the boss of David Walgren and Mrs. Brazil. He was the one who decided that the Murray's case would be involuntary manslaughter and not second degree murder.

Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Thursday, October 27th 2011 @ 3:46 AM

I was just looking at the updates on HLN Insessions Blog.....a very funny moment took place with one of Conrad Murrays witnesses.....I wasn't awake to see it.Did any of you guys see it?
Yes Gail, we have been watching this live and Fairy posts everyday the videos from the courtroom. If you have trouble finding here in the forum look at the right side of the page and you will see the last posts or give a search by the name of witness and it will show the topics Fairy posted the videos.

Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Thursday, October 27th 2011 @ 3:46 AM

Also on the same link there is a video of Cherilyn Lee talking to the media after her testimony.....is this allowed?Also note how they say a few times....She Loved Michael and still does......She also mentions it was like a ''virus in there'.....I wonder who the guy with the camera was.......he was really in her face........
Fixing the link:
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Thursday, October 27th 2011 @ 3:46 AM

http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/
Nurse: There's a 'virus' in the courtroom

She may have been testifying for the defense, but it doesn't look Cherilyn Lee thinks too highly of Dr. Conrad Murray. Lee was Michael Jackson's former nurse practitioner and she stopped to talk to the media outside of the courthouse after testifying Tuesday.

A cameraman asked her how she was feeling (trial had to stop down for a several minutes because she said she was feeling dizzy on the witness stand).

"It was just hard being in a room with… It was like a virus in there," Lee said.

The cameraman then started to ask her about the horrendous traffic that morning, which caused her to rush in to court.

"No, I don’t mean that kind of virus… but I won’t go any further."

Complete courtroom coverage of the Conrad Murray trial airs live on HLN from gavel to gavel. It’s also on In Session on truTV from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. ET every weekday.


She really called Murray a virus, not in all these words, when she says "it is not that kind of virus I am talking about".

Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Thursday, October 27th 2011 @ 3:46 AM

I just can''t get over a witness being allowed to get near the defendant,let alone kiss him!!!...Is this for real.....and the smile on Conrads face......WOW.
neither the witness nor the lawyers are allowed to give interviews about the case, and she may get called by the judge to be hold in contempt as Dr. White was. Dr. White has a hearing with the judge at Nov. 16 because he talked to the media.


She really loves Michael and as I said at the chatroom, I think she is upset because she had to be a witness to the defense.

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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   11th October 2013, 4:17 pm

posted by Nimue on Thursday, October 27th 2011

KatherineJacksonMayNotBeInLAForDr.ConradMurrayVerdict

I posted the article at this thread:

http://www.igroops.com/members/httpfairycom/comm/READ/00006071/Michael-Jackson-Documentary-from-Old-Pal-David-Gest-Gets-Screened.html

Jackson dependent on painkiller, trial expert says

But in the involuntary manslaughter trial of Dr. Conrad Murray, stemming from Jackson's 2009 overdose death, addiction specialist Dr. Robert Waldman could not say unequivocally whether he believed the singer was addicted to the painkiller.

Waldman was testifying as an expert witness for the defence as it neared wrapping up its case. The claim by Murray's attorneys that the "Thriller" singer was addicted to various drugs and that he engaged in "doctor shopping" is a central part of the defence strategy.

Murray has admitted to giving Jackson nearly daily doses of the powerful aesthetic propofol as a sleep aid at the singer's Los Angeles mansion, and medical examiners found that was the chief cause of his June 25, 2009, death.

But Murray's attorneys argue that the physician was unaware that the singer was getting shots of the addictive painkiller Demerol from a Beverly Hills dermatologist, and that it hampered Murray's efforts to get him to sleep.

Waldman said side-effects of Demerol withdrawal include anxiety and insomnia.

According to medical records presented on Thursday, Jackson received 900 milligrams of Demerol over three days in May 2009, from dermatologist Dr. Arnold Klein.

Klein's records show he also gave Jackson Botox and Restylane for wrinkles and excess perspiration for several months in 2009. Waldman described the Demerol shots as "stiff doses" that were not needed with skin treatment injections.

"I believe there is evidence that he was dependent on Demerol," Waldman said of Jackson, adding that the pop star was "possibly" addicted to the painkiller.

But during an aggressive cross-examination by prosecutors, Waldman could not say for certain that Jackson was addicted to the drug. He also acknowledged that he was not officially certified as an addiction specialist.

Dependence is characterized by a physical need for a drug, while addiction is more serious because it also involves a person continuing with destructive behaviour and use of a substance, despite bad consequences, Waldman said.

Murray's attorneys argue that on the day the singer died, Jackson gave himself an extra, fatal dose of propofol.

The doctor, who has pleaded not guilty, faces up to four years in prison if convicted.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/10/27/uk-michaeljackson-idUKTRE79Q6Q520111027


Aphrodite Jones Reports: Nurse's Testimony Total Disaster for Conrad Murray's Defense

Yesterday was a total disaster for the Conrad Murray defense. All I can say is: Nurse Cherilyn Lee seemed to help the prosecution more than anyone thus far. In hindsight, the defense should have thought twice about calling a seemingly hostile witness who they were unable to interview prior to her testimony.

The nurse practitioner, who earned a Ph.D. in nutrition schooled via online studies, was so shaken up by the thought that propofol killed her former patient Michael Jackson, she actually appeared faint and was granted a "rest period" by the judge so she could compose herself in order to testify. When Cherilyn Lee finally appeared an hour later to take the witness stand, she substantiated her belief in holistic medicine and explained how she tried to help MJ with his sleep problems by making special smoothie drinks and giving Michael non-toxic supplements in April of 2009. Of course, the defense was rolling the dice with this witness. They called Ms. Lee in an effort to establish that MJ had prior experience with propofol, that MJ was insistent about propofol being the only substance that could "knock him out" so he could actually get a good night's sleep. And yes, nurse Lee did confirm that MJ requested the drug propofol on more than one occasion in 2009, proving that the singer was familiar with the drug and implying that Conrad Murray was the one of a string of medical professionals who had been hit up by Michael for the anesthetic ... Still, on cross examination, Ms. Lee's tearful affect seemed to impact the jury more than the defense could ever have foreseen.

The most damning testimony from Ms. Lee came when she told jurors that she warned Michael about the dangers of using propofol outside of a hospital setting and told the court that MJ insisted: "Doctors have told me that it's safe ... I just need to be monitored." Had Dr. Conrad Murray properly monitored Michael? Did he put his life in the wrong hands? That's what Nurse Cherilyn Lee seemed to be implying. Sometimes, body language is more powerful than words. This nurse was heavy-hearted, tearful and faint. Clearly she blames Murray for playing Russian roulette with MJ's life.


http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2011/10/aphrodite-jones-reports-nurses-testimony-total-disaster-for-conrad-murrays-defense.html

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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   11th October 2013, 4:22 pm

posted by The Fairy on Friday, October 28th 2011
Conrad Murray Trial
Paris Hilton's Mother In Court
To Support MJ's Family




Paris Hilton's mom, Kathy Hilton, just showed up to court to show the Hilton family's support for Michael Jackson's family.

The Hiltons have a longtime connection to the Jackson family -- Kathy went to private school with Michael when she was 13 and he was 14.

The families have known each other for decades. Kathy went to the UCLA Medical Center to see Michael and say her final goodbyes. She says she actually rubbed his head, arms, and legs as he lay on the gurney.

Kathy chose today because it will probably be the last day of testimony in the trial. Rick Hilton is also present.

Best Supporting Stars

NBA Draft Pick: 'I Wanna Support My Parents'
Congressman's Woman -- Big Weiner Supporter
Lindsay Lohan -- 'I Support The Judge's Decision


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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   11th October 2013, 4:26 pm

posted by MaryJo on Friday, October 28th 2011

My comment: these are abc news tweets AFTER the court was adfourned today.


abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Judge: (there is) seemingly no end 2 the case when it comes to the defense and potential rebuttal, potential surrebutal. I need 2 move this!


abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Judge to attorneys: be aware of the jurors, we're now past the date. I don't want major surprises anymore. #conradmurraytrial


abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Chernoff says that in Texas the jury charges (I think he means jury instructions) is 2 pages. #conradmurraytrial

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Chernoff told the judge he has never experienced anything like the jury charges he's seeing. He says it's very detailed and specific.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Judge told attorneys they need 2 be looking at the jury instructions he provided, involuntary manslaughter instructions, issues of causation

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Judge admonished attorneys that he expects attorneys to be in communication over the weekend and cannot have continuing issues w/ discovery.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Walgren was having an issue with the certification document. He claimed the process by which it was delivered 2 him violated the court rules

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Just to clarify: Chernoff told judge that Walgren received the cert document 6 weeks ago and Walgren didn't have an issue w/ it until now.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Walgren said he would prefer it not appeared to fall on him. Judge decided to say it's agreed by parties & court and be the "bad guy" again.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Judge asked attys what 2 tell jurors that was truthful yet innocuous (about trial ending early 2day) Flanagan: have nice lunch, nice weekend

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Walgren said he received doc some weeks ago and was not disputing whatever representation it was making. Judge allow them in for fairness.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Chernoff: if (Walgren) had a concern with the certification document he should've said something earlier. This is just, frankly, a ploy.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Chernoff told judge that he has an issue with the document now but didn't have 6 weeks ago when he received a copy of it. #conradmurraytrial

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
More: Defense attorneys subpoenaed hospital for Dr Murray's certification on sedation and doc was delivered to atty's office, not the court

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Walgren was having an issue with the certification document. He claimed the process by which it was delivered 2 him violated the court rules

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Just to clarify: Chernoff told judge that Walgren received the cert document 6 weeks ago and Walgren didn't have an issue w/ it until now.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Walgren said he would prefer it not appeared to fall on him. Judge decided to say it's agreed by parties & court and be the "bad guy" again.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Walgren said he received doc some weeks ago and was not disputing whatever representation it was making. Judge allow them in for fairness.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Exclusive tidbits: there was an issue between the attorneys behind the scene that had to do with the subpoena of Dr #Murray's certification

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Based on all of what's ahead, when do you think the jury will begin deliberation? #conradmurraytrial

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
So here's what's ahead in this trial: conclusion of Dr White's testimony; rebuttal for both sides; jury instructions and closing arguments.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
For those asking: our sources say #ConradMurray will NOT testify on his behalf. But, as judge said, at the end it's his choice, no 1 else's.



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PostSubject: Re: Comments about the trial   11th October 2013, 4:32 pm

posted by Nimue on Friday, October 28th 2011

Kathy Hilton
Conrad Murray Trial Is a 'Shame'



Video at the link

Kathy Hilton is torn to pieces over the Michael Jackson manslaughter trial -- claiming, "I love [Michael] and I miss him. This is a shame. I can't believe what we're going through."

As we previously reported, Kathy -- who went to school with Michael as a teenager -- showed up to court today to support MJ's family.


http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/28/kathy-hilton-michael-jackson-conrad-murray-trial/#.TqsmkHKaDh4


Quote :
Quote from MaryJo on Friday, October 28th 2011 @ 2:09 PM

My comment: these are abc news tweets AFTER the court was adfourned today.

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Walgren was having an issue with the certification document. He claimed the process by which it was delivered 2 him violated the court rules

abc7MurrayTrial ABC7 Murray Trial
Just to clarify: Chernoff told judge that Walgren received the cert document 6 weeks ago and Walgren didn't have an issue w/ it until now.
I didn't watch the trial today, so I am not sure what they are talking about, but I got in my spy mode and I found the picture bellow at MJHD.net, maybe this is the document they are talking about.

If so, Who is Conrad W Murray?



Wasn't Murray's name Conrad R. Murray?

Conrad R Murray, MD
Cardiologist, Internist
Male - 18 years experience

http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Conrad_Murray

Giving a search on the name Conrad W Murray I found someone who died 56 years ago in Texas, more or less Murray's age (56 or 58 years old):



Look the symbol on the grave..

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10030402

Just one note:

The picture of the grave was added to the site on July 7 2011.

Very weird since this Conrand W Murray is dead since 1955.


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